Curse

Kurow · May 03, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Name: Ironic Spider. Doesnt make sense, but heck its 2 o clock in the morning.

Basically, this is like any other assassin, except it uses iron palm and falling spider. Definately not a PvE set. Here goes the skill set:

Black Mantis Thrust
Iron Palm
Falling Spider
Impale
Death Blossom
Shadow Refuge
Aura of Displacement [E] / Shadow of Haste / Critical Eye *
Rez Signet

Stats:
Dagger Mastery: 11+1+x
Deadly Arts: 10+x
Shadow Arts: 6+x
Critical Strikes: 8+x

4 leftover points.

* Just being an assassin means you have to be able to get in, do your stuff, and get out. I dont know how I forgot to include some means to do this, but aura of displacement works for that perfectly, and since there was no other elite in this build, chachaching ching. You could use critical eye if you didnt feel like escaping though. Furthermore, you could use shadow of haste, theoretically. I dont know if 6~ is enough shadow arts in this skill to give you enough time to pull off the combo. The combo takes like... 6 seconds at the most. Im not playing right now, but thats my max estimate.

Though its nice having more critical strike, I hypothesize that the ideal number is 8 in this case.

Basically, this build is supposed to put some hurt on the enemies, like most assassin builds, but it uses what I would like to think is a creative means. First use impale, so as to have a hex on the target; then use black mantis thrust, which cripples hexed foes; then iron palm, which knocks down foes afflicted with a hex or condition; then we strike the knocked down foe with falling spider, and finish up with death blossom.

I tested this build in the training grounds, and with these stats I consistently got the 60 AL suits down to 30-40% life after the first string is executed.

I ask these questions:

Will this builds effectiveness be hampered by target's kiting?

Should I switch out some skill for another?

Is this build complete crap?

Should I switch out a skill for serpents quickness to lower recharge of iron palm, etc?

Comments?

RTSFirebat · May 03, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I like it, I still find having apply posion on there useful to stack damage during your combos. Couldn't you replace one of the skills for that?

Kurow · May 03, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Well... really replacing anything with apply poison would take away the point of the build I think. If I had apply poison, there would be no need for falling spider, and then no need for iron palm. Also, slight edit to the above build.

RTSFirebat · May 03, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Well... really replacing anything with apply poison would take away the point of the build I think. If I had apply poison, there would be no need for falling spider, and then no need for iron palm. Also, slight edit to the above build.

Oh yes sorry I re-read the skills no ^_^ heh!

Well in answer to one of your questions I would try replacing Critical Eye with a Speed or Teleport skill of some sort. Since maybe your build would leave yourself open during retreat for recovery?

Kurow · May 03, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Oh yes sorry I re-read the skills no ^_^ heh!

Well in answer to one of your questions I would try replacing Critical Eye with a Speed or Teleport skill of some sort. Since maybe your build would leave yourself open during retreat for recovery?

Hehe, I changed that probably as you were typing the message.

MysticPain · May 03, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

I personally do think kiting would be a problem, but a fun counter to that with sins is strike just as they start casting a spell. Most players won't cancel their cast just to start kiting you.

As far as I can see, the dual with "the most bang for your buck" is Critical Strikes. It does an EXCELLENT amount of damage, and you net back mana from your critical strikes attribute and critical eye (which I'm saddened to see is not in this). But yeah. It's 10 mana, but since it hits twice, most builds will get the mana back (3 mana from crit strikes, 1 from critical eye and 1 from zealous dagger) and this particular build won't lose much mana from it. It's also a much faster recharge than Death Blossom, but that doesn't seem to be the focus of the build here, so I suppose that doesn't matter.

I became much more confident in my critical strikes setup when, after doing a few faction battles (Siege turtles rock!) I occassionally would be attacked into doing a 1 vs 1 with another sin. Almost all of them used Death Blossom. I never lost one of those 1 vs 1s, critical strikes seemed to be the advantage.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 03, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

hmm...

I would take something that slow the target than to teleport. It is quite pointless to teleport to the guy just to have him run away again.

The Chimpster · May 03, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticPain

I personally do think kiting would be a problem, but a fun counter to that with sins is strike just as they start casting a spell. Most players won't cancel their cast just to start kiting you.

As far as I can see, the dual with "the most bang for your buck" is Critical Strikes. It does an EXCELLENT amount of damage, and you net back mana from your critical strikes attribute and critical eye (which I'm saddened to see is not in this). But yeah. It's 10 mana, but since it hits twice, most builds will get the mana back (3 mana from crit strikes, 1 from critical eye and 1 from zealous dagger) and this particular build won't lose much mana from it. It's also a much faster recharge than Death Blossom, but that doesn't seem to be the focus of the build here, so I suppose that doesn't matter.

I became much more confident in my critical strikes setup when, after doing a few faction battles (Siege turtles rock!) I occassionally would be attacked into doing a 1 vs 1 with another sin. Almost all of them used Death Blossom. I never lost one of those 1 vs 1s, critical strikes seemed to be the advantage.

Yay another fan

I love critical attack, it is frigging mean

Have a look at my critical assassin post and see what you think of it, I've comboed critical eye with way of perfection (with 13 in critical) and then gone with a jagged, wild, critical combo (with apply poison up). Works a charm

Yukito Kunisaki · May 03, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Death Blossom doesn't favor pvp since people aren't dumb enough to eat double damage in a large area, unless they're uh, dumb

Use Critcal Strike. I'm Twisting Fangs' lover but you've got bleeding in there... Deep wound would help ya out and I'd definitely recommend that.

I know a way to make your stats usable.

12+1+3 Dagger Mastery
7+1 Critical Strikes
8+1 Deadly Arts
8+1 Shadow Arts

I think that's easily attainable and what's more, Critical strikes I'd really only consider at 8 or 13 crit due to the energy bonus. It's like Expertise breakpoints: 9, 13, or 14. Treat it the same and you'll get good results.

9 in a stat point is quite respectable and with 16 daggers, your damage is paramount

I hate how they moved Twisting fangs to Critical strikes ;_;

Bloody Poison combo? I like it.
I'd use Black Mantis Thrust instead of Jagged Strike. You are using Impale right?

Other than that, a good formula for a potent sin matches that of an offensive tank warrior:

1st priority: damage through skill+ bonus or conditions, max that weapon attribute.

2nd priority: containment. Condition/hex or a speed buff. You can have both if possible but that costs more skill slots. [or get Siphon Speed and have both in 1...

]

3rd survival: something to heal. I like using anti-conditions/hex rather than a straight up hp heal but that depends on your monk in the end...

A nice build and the elite, I'm not so sure. For a max weapon attribute, I'd consider using an elite that matches up with said attribute. That leaves ya with Moebius or Temple Strike, I nod to Temple Strike.

Shagma · May 03, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I dont like the long wait for Iron palm to recharge. This build seems "fragile" to me, though i only do PvE som it might not be suited for that. Sadly i cant find a replacement skill either. I do like the high damage output tho

Kurow · May 03, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Im not too sure about critical strike. Sure it does two crits, along with adding damage. But at 8 critical I think the damage added is not good enough to switch from death blossom. At 8 critical strikes, critical strike does +21 damage for each dagger, and adds a critical. On a critical hit, based on the recent equations for this discovered, the hit does 2*basedmg*sqrt(2)*2^(-AL+20/40), which in other words means somwhere around 150% normal damage. Base damage of dagger attacks is 10...17 and a crit from them is 15...26. This means that with 8 in critical strikes, critical attack does 47 at maximum.

On the other hand, death blossom, with 14 dagger mastery, which is what mine usually is, does +38 for each attack. While it does not induce a critical, it still does more damage. It also still has the chance of doing a critical. I suppose if I had more critical strikes it might be worth it, but death blossom is cheaper, stronger, and has AOE.

Yukito youre a genius, I didnt even realize that impale was a hex. Now I dont have to worry about this kiting stuff, if I use impale first, then mantis thrust, etc. Heck I could just use impale then go straigt to the iron palm etc. Anyway, even though it takes out the bleeding, its well worth it for cripple.

I am keeping the aura of displacement, because you definately dont want to get stuck inbetween a warrior and... well anything really. With it you can tele in, work your combo, maybe finish up for a couple seconds, and be out by canceling the enchant. Also this allows for usage of +15% enchanted weapons.

Kurow · May 05, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Bump?